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Minor edit edit
I changed this:
Current countries under Capetian leadership: edit
- Juan Carlos, King of Spain (since 1975)
- Henri, Grand Duke of Luxembourg (since 2000)
To this
Current Capetian rulers: edit
- Juan Carlos, King of Spain (since 1975)
- Henri, Grand Duke of Luxembourg (since 2000)
As I would expect a list of countries in the first case rather than a list of people. Matthieu 11:07, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps the best titles would be Capetian dynasty, Valois dynasty, Bourbon dynasty, instead of the mixture. Or is there a better way still? --Wetman 02:23, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Proposed merge with House of Capet edit
I oppose the proposed merge. I think that it is worth having a separate article on the the very broadly defined House of Capet, which includes all descendants of Robert the Strong, including families that have ruled many parts of Europe other than France, including the present-day monarchs of Spain and Luxembourg. This article can and should focus instead on the narrowly defined dynasty that ruled France from 987 to 1328. It would be worth expanding this article to really cover monarchs in the dynasty and events and processes that occurred under their rule, as the article Carolingians does. Marco polo 01:55, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
The list of Capetian kings here goes from the end of the Carolingians up to the Revolution (and beyond!). According to the House of Bourbon article, the Bourbon dynasty took over with Henry IV.
So which is it? Did the Capetians rule in unbroken succession until 1792?
I would hasten to add that this should probably be explained in the article (or perhaps the Bourbon one). It's not clear as it's currently written. I'm obviously not an expert on this subject, so I can't fix it myself. Cheers --DarthBinky 22:20, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
- Ok, well then what does "cadet line" mean? --DarthBinky 15:36, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
- The article should mention that too then. I've never heard that term before. Cheers --DarthBinky 05:52, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Hugh Capet's surname is described on his article as of unknown origins. This article claims, rather strangely, that it comes from his habit of wearing a cape. Unless someone can source this, I am removing it. Michaelsanders 14:52, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the successors to Ferdinand I of Portugal. His successor was an illegitimate son of Peter I of Portugal, and is not, therefore, Capetian. Michaelsanders 15:00, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
There has been a proposal to merge House of Capet with Capetians, but it seems to me useful to have separate articles on the House of Capet, which covers a wide range of dynastic lines, and on the narrowly defined Capetian dynasty that ruled France from 987 to 1328. The latter article should cover monarchs in that dynasty and events in the history of France that occurred under their rule, whereas the article "House of Capet" can be a general introduction to the broader nexus of aristocratic families sharing a descent from the early Capets. In order to avoid confusion between the Capetians of France, narrowly defined, and other members of the House of Capet, I think that it would help to reserve the term "Capetians" for the French kings and their immediate family members and to use the term "Capets" for members of the broader network of families. Do others think that this would be a good way to avoid confusion? Marco polo 01:51, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
- Surely it would be the other way round - 'The House of Capet' to describe the Kings of France (as opposed to 'The House of Burgundy', 'The House of Dreux'), and 'Capetian' to denote the ultimate stemming of these Houses from the Capets (thus, 'The Capetian Dukes of Burgundy' to contrast with 'The Valois Dukes of Burgundy'). The main idea sounds good, though.Michaelsanders 09:37, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
"it also is one of the most incestuous, especially in the Spanish Monarchy." I think the author mistaken the Capetian and the Spanish branch of the Habsburg dynasty, more known for their intermarriage than the Capetian dynasty. As there is no source for this statement, i propose to simply remove it. 86.206.111.109 (talk) 13:48, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
The English claim was not the first time female succession became an issue, so it's oversimplification to say that "Without Salic Law, ... the crown would have passed to Isabella ... and her heir, Edward III of England." Under modern British rules, the French succession in 1328 would apparently be:
- Joan II of Navarre, daughter of Louis X and sister of John I, the first king with no surviving son
- Joan III, Countess of Burgundy, daughter of Philip V
- Margaret I, Countess of Burgundy, daughter of Philip V
- Isabelle of France (1312–1348), daughter of Philip V
- Blanche, posthumous daughter of Charles IV
- Isabella, dowager queen of England
- issue of Charles of Valois
- issue of Louis d'Évreux
- Thomas of Brotherton, 1st Earl of Norfolk
- Edmund of Woodstock, 1st Earl of Kent
- The English had accepted that no female could ever inherit the French crown. Due to the failure of Matilda to secure the English throne for herself many generations before, it was de facto established that no female could inherit the English crown either. However, Matilda succeeded in securing the kingship of her son, Henry II of England, creating a precedent in the English monarchy whereby no female could become queen regnant, but a king may succeed through the female line (This would change later, during the reign of the Tudor dynasty, many centuries after). In 1328, Edward III applied this rule of English succession to that of France, as a male heir of the French Kings through a female line. The French nobles refused to recognize an English monarch as its king, and backed Philip of Valois instead.Emerson 07 (talk) 14:01, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
- At the death of Charles IV in 1328, the only living male descendant of Philip IV is Edward III of England. Edward's problem is that he is the English king, and England was the greatest rival of France. Also, it was argued that since Isabella herself does not have a right to succeed to the French throne according to Salic Law, then it followed that Edward, her son, had no such right either. "One cannot give what one does not have." As pointed out above, Edward interpreted the French law of succession according to the English one (at that time): Though a female cannot succeed, her male heirs could. I think that in the viewpoint of medieval English nationalists, Edward was the legitimate heir, since he was the "heir" in 1328, as opposed to Philip VI. Charles the Bad's claim cannot be enforced, since he was born four years after the death of Charles IV. If he was the rightful king, who was the one whom he succeeded? Charles IV? Of course not... There should have been an heir to Charles IV at that time already. Even if France had a succession law similar to England's, there cannot have been a four-year interregnum waiting for the birth of the male heir of Philip IV's most senior descendant, Joan of Navarre. Emerson 07 (talk) 12:24, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
Recently added:
- The French lords were opposed to the succession of an English monarch, and produced an addition to the Salic Law whereby a male heir cannot succeed to the throne through a female line.
Two paragraphs above, we say the Salic Law specifies strictly agnatic succession. So how is this an addition? —Tamfang (talk) 19:36, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
- I think that, at first (or at least according to medieval English jurists), Salic Law is not strictly agnatic. It simply meant that a female cannot succeed to the throne. Thus, Edward III's claim to the French throne, since he was, for all purposes, male. According to some histories I read, it was only later that the French added the tenet that succession to the French throne cannot be transmitted by females. Emerson 07 (talk) 12:28, 21 June 2011 (UTC)