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Why isn't Mitanni one of the predecessors of Armenia? -- Davo88 15:27, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
I think that Nairi should be added before Urartu given how that tribal confederation of sorts proceeded the Kingdom of Urartu. We should also add the Shulaveri-Shomu culture, Kura-Araxes culture given how it spread from the Ararat plain as well as the Trialeti culture. This seems to be standard practice with similar templates: Template:History of Greece includes Helladic and Cylcadic civilizations as well as Minoans, Template:History of Austria includes Hallstatt culture etc. Any objections? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eupator (talk • contribs) 20:52, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Kura-Araxes has no known connection to Armenia. It ended about 1,400 years before the Orontids even arrived in Armenia. Any connection is speculative. A tag of
is more appropriate for Kura-Araxes as you note since it addresses the archaeological history of Armenia. The same tag should, in my view, also apply to Hayasa-Azzi--all we know about Hayassa-Azzi is that it was a 13th and 12th century BC ancient kingdom and an enemy of the Hittites. No one knows if they are Armenian per se although they would be placed under the Armenia-related topic tag. In contrast, Urartu should be placed in pre-historic Armenia since it existed very close in time to the Orontid kingdom. Artene50 (talk) 04:12, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
other nations have a whole heap of kingdoms, civilisations, empires ext.. which dont relate to the modern state or people, and yet they are still on the template because they once existed on their territory! where is the consistancy on this website! either include them for armenia, or piss off and delete these other ambigous entries in all other templates. no wonder people think wiki is a joke! good day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.26.187.44 (talk) 12:35, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
I understand what you are saying Eupator but AA keeps saying or implying that Hayasa-Azzi or Kura-Araxes are descendants of Armenians of which there is no proof. Even Dbachman said that to equate Armenia with Kura-Araxes culture, in its talk page, is WP:SYN. No one knows what happens to this people after their culture disappeared. A better template, since it directly links to the archaeological history of Armenia, for Kura-Araxes is the "Armenia-related topics" which Mikkalai suggests. The same case is preferable for Hayasa-Azzi since we don't know what happened to its people after the fall of the Hittites. They would be part of the archaeology of Armenia under 'Armenia-related topics.'
In contrast, Urartu definitely belongs to the pre-historic section of Armenia because 1) it was the immediate predecessor of the Orontids and 2) there is a very strong probability that some Urartians were ancestors of today's Armenians. The last Urartu king, Rusa IV lived only 15 years (d.585 BC) before the reign of Orontes I in 570 BC. I wish there were a few good scholarly books on Urartu for me to read because some sources claim that Rusa IV died in 584 or 590 BC. (very confusing!) But Rusa IV certainly was overthrown one generation before Orontes became king. Artene50 (talk) 19:59, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Eupator. An idea: Why don't you place the Armenia-related topic tag at the bottom of the Azzi-Hayasa article (see below) as Mikkalai has done for Kura-Araxes culture? Everyone who reads Kura-Araxes will know it is related to the archaeology of Armenia. The same can then apply for Azzi-Hayasa. If an article has too many tags, the article is distracting and the Admins will remove them. Artene50 (talk) 02:35, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
This can be ignored, the template has changed since, see the next section.
I want to know what people think of the new template.
The color code:
It's organized to give an in-depth template for the full history of Armenia (geographic area and states). The states are in bold and are the main articles, some sub-sections include dynasties, minor states, vassals, key events, etc.)
Some articles that I believe deserve an article (which I may work on) are included (as in the Phrygian Theory, or the Nakhichevan deportations by Shah Abbas).
Here are two versions of the images:
Kentronhayastan (talk) 06:07, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
There are problems with {{align|right}}
for the dates. The dates are wrapping over to a new line, and then look like the correspond to the next line. there are a few ways to fix this: (1) remove the alignment, or (2) do what I did in the first section using an embedded infobox, or (3) add some nowrap around the lines, which could make the box too wide. Frietjes (talk) 23:28, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
I believe centered looks better. Plus, when a list is shown, it becomes confusing since it blends in with the periods and content. Kentronhayastan (talk) 04:49, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
It appears that the user KentronHayastan removed a very important chunk of the section (Marzpanate Period --> Marzpanate Armenia) in the Antiquity. Can you please restore that part? It is the part after Commagene, we have our leader in the Christian era Vartan Mamikonian, battling against foreign rule in our land. He apparently removed this part, I dont think this user who appears is Armenian historian, is in fact ruining in a very clever way. Please look out for his changes on this matter. Thank you. 75.51.173.37 (talk) 00:13, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
Frost778 is suggesting we use the word Ancient instead of Antiquity, and extend its period to include (merge with) everything before it (or, age1 in the template's code). I disagree. The original template had the word "prehistory" since it covered a period before the history of Armenia per-se. He suggested we use the word "Ancient" instead of "Prehistory," which is inconsistent since Ancient and Antiquity are synonymous (see Antiquity), hence, both cannot be in the same template for different eras. I opted for "Bronze & Iron Age," since I'm assuming Frost's problem with Prehistory is because he would like to merge Armenian history with that of states that existed before Armenia (be it proto-Armenian or non-Armenian in the Armenian Highlands), consider prehistory implies "before Armenia." I figured Bronze & Iron age which is far more neutral since it doesn't give a hint on opinion on what those states represented, and fits more accurately the role of titles in the template since they represent ages. He is using the history templates of Iran and China as justification for his argument, but I don't believe that is a valid justification. Are there any other opinions? Thank you. Kentronhayastan (talk) 05:20, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
First of all who is Frost? Second Im an Armenian and you appear as an imposter, even though your name in Armenian for those who dont know means Heart of Armenia.
3rd here is the real issue:
My lovely friend, you still havent gave me an answer why they have ANCIENT in 3200 BC, and why we cant, you realize these other users are slowly going to realize, if not already, what im talking about, and that you are an imposter, your name in Armenian for them that dont know means Heart of Armenia. So I suggest you either show yourself true, or you are an imposter. I told you a simple question regarding why our lovely friends of Iran Persia, can have ANCIENT in 3200 BC of there History of Iran TEMPLATE, and our History of Armenia is not allowed to in that area of time I just mentioned to you. Got it buddy?
You just changed the word to ANTIQUITY in the History of Iran part for the same 3200 BC time! You didnt do anything different there. Who are you trying to fool? Its the same meaning you put in the same era, put the same word , one of those words in the same ERA in the History of Armenia, where you have Bronze Iron Age. The issue is not if the word is ANTIQUITY or ANCIENT, the issue is where you put it in 3200 BC time for them and for History of Armenia you dont put it at that time.
And you are saying History of Iran to have ANTIQUITY in 3200 BC is not a valid argument? Please buddy. Explain to me how Persians exist in 3200 BC, and that you changing the word with same meaning to ANCIENT, as you put ANTIQUITY now, is not a valid argument and point Im trying to make here. Persians or History of Iran should not have ANTIQUITY at a time they dont exist, not even Proto-Persians. So tell me why you are not putting ANTIQUITY in that same ERA in the History of Armenia, and you just changed the wor ANCIENT to ANTIQUITY in the 3200 ERA of the History of Iran template. 75.51.172.205 (talk) 05:26, 13 November 2012 (UTC) 75.51.172.205 (talk) 05:23, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
I propose to change the image in the template, as the symbol shown in the picture is a pagan and does not relate to the history of Armenia.--Δαβίδ (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
The first surviving record of the name ‘Mithra’ dates back to 1400 B.C., spelled ‘Mi-it-ra’, in the inscribed 4 peace treaty between the Hittites and the Hurrian kingdom of Mitanni in Asia minor.However, what these scholars fail to realize is that in the Gathas, the earliest sacred Zoroastrian texts attributed to Zoroaster himself, Mithra is not mentioned. Furthermore, Mithra also does not appear by name in the Yasna Haptanghaiti, a seven-verse section of the Yasna liturgy that is linguistically as old as the Gathas. Many scholars have noted that the lack of any mention (i.e. Zoroaster’s silence) of Mithra in these texts implies that Zoroaster in fact had rejected Mithra. This is supported by the fact that Zoroaster did not mention Mithra was because in fact in the earliest Avestan writings both Mihr-Mithra and the Armenian Matron Goddess Anahit are condemned as “daevas” or “false gods” or “daemons” that were not to be worshiped.
It was only in the fourth century BCE, when we for the first time find the mentioning of Mithras in the Iranian context as a “positive’ deity of the very radiance of the Sun in the inscriptions of the Achaemenid king Xerxes II Mnemon. The Religion of Mithras or Mithraism as it became known in the West would soon spread beyond borders of Armenia, not only towards the East, towards Iran and India, but also that of the West. Mithraic temples known as Mithraea sprang up all over the Roman Empire. They were mostly promoted by Armenian aristocrats who already by this time were prominent generals in the Roman Army. Armenian King Tiridates III is a good example, who prior to his coronation was a prominent general in the Roman Army, it was Emperor Diocletian a close friend and fellow Mithraic devotee of Tiridates who asked the Armenian king to take the challenge of personal combat from a Gothic chief, Trdat successfully stood in for the Emperor and won the tournament. By the second century AD Mithraism was virtually the state religion of the Roman Empire and virtually all of the Roman Emperors during this time and prior to adoption of Christianity in the Fourth century CE were high initiates of the Mithraic mysteries. Most of the Mithraic rites along with the rituals and rites were simply taken over by the newly forming Roman Catholic Church.
Excerpts from Pre-Christian Gods of Armenia (Glendale, 2007) by Hovik Nersisian (1921-2009). Nersisian is an author of many books and articles. He was a renowned scholar who in 1991, for his merits in Iranian Studies, most notably the study of the oldest surviving copies of the Avesta, became a full-member of New York’s Academy of Sciences. About these ads Share this:
Twitter2 Facebook56 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.205.35.190 (talk) 17:27, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
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add the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Armenia page 24.17.216.223 (talk) 05:10, 5 July 2017 (UTC)